This weekend, while playing that Star War Miniatures Battles scenario you mention, we had a very similar discussion. We were talking about the whining 40k players who have breakdowns and sell their armies whenever a new codex comes out because the force they spent months mathhammering and min/maxing is no longer competitive in the tournament scene. I don't understand these people and I don't respect them. I have never bought and painted a miniature in my life just because the crunch said it was a killer unit, so these people may as well be aliens from another planet to me. I can't understand why they pursue a creative hobby in such a mindless, uncreative way. Why not just play poker or video games?
Most of the tabletop RPG audience is the same way. They can already do whatever they want in their imaginatiion-based, theater-of-the-mind games, or with tools that have been printed before I was born. But they are constantly looking for permission from publishers to do what they want to do. Why? Maybe imaginative hobbies aren't for them.
Once upon a time, I was very into competitive Magic. I played a lot of Magic Online back in the day. I spent hours online learning to play drafts, learning the new cards, playing sealed tournaments. I really enjoyed being good at it. And then I stopped playing, and I when I did play a few games here and there, I sucked. I didn't like being bad at it. And I stopped enjoying it.
The male ego wants to prove they are the best at what they do. Playing competition level games is one way that "normal" people can get that competitive urge out. It's a hobby in and of itself. The hobby in this case is not playing games, it is being the best player they can be. The hobby is list building, and playing tournament level games.
Now I play games because I enjoy every aspect of the hobby. I enjoy collecting, I enjoy painting, I enjoy reading new rules, old rules etc. And sometimes I even get a few games in here and there.
It is much like my other hobbies. I enjoy hunting, because I am good at it. I enjoy the thrill of the chase, and I enjoy harvesting animals and plants for dinner. But I also enjoy being in the woods, and communing with God in His creation. One time I was so overwhelmed by His creation, I was forced to get on my knees and cry out to Him, and worship Him right at the base of a tree. I'm not even sure if I got any animals that morning, but I got something way more important. I got a reminder of who I serve.
I don't like fishing. Why? Because I suck at it. I'm a terrible fisherman. I don't have patience. I don't spend the time to learn to be good at it. I haven't explored every aspect of the local lakes to be good at learning where the fish are, what they like, and how to catch them. I don't enjoy the finer aspects of that hobby.
It's not that I don't understand the love of excellence or think it's worthy to pursue. It's that I don't think anyone can be excellent at listbuilding since it is entirely an exercise of spending money based on someone else's decisions. Wargaming presents numerous opportunity for satisfaction at good performance: tactical acumen, the effective employment of limited resources against superior forces, etc... Buying your way to victory, or lucking out based on the results of the latest Codex, is lame.
This weekend, while playing that Star War Miniatures Battles scenario you mention, we had a very similar discussion. We were talking about the whining 40k players who have breakdowns and sell their armies whenever a new codex comes out because the force they spent months mathhammering and min/maxing is no longer competitive in the tournament scene. I don't understand these people and I don't respect them. I have never bought and painted a miniature in my life just because the crunch said it was a killer unit, so these people may as well be aliens from another planet to me. I can't understand why they pursue a creative hobby in such a mindless, uncreative way. Why not just play poker or video games?
Most of the tabletop RPG audience is the same way. They can already do whatever they want in their imaginatiion-based, theater-of-the-mind games, or with tools that have been printed before I was born. But they are constantly looking for permission from publishers to do what they want to do. Why? Maybe imaginative hobbies aren't for them.
Once upon a time, I was very into competitive Magic. I played a lot of Magic Online back in the day. I spent hours online learning to play drafts, learning the new cards, playing sealed tournaments. I really enjoyed being good at it. And then I stopped playing, and I when I did play a few games here and there, I sucked. I didn't like being bad at it. And I stopped enjoying it.
The male ego wants to prove they are the best at what they do. Playing competition level games is one way that "normal" people can get that competitive urge out. It's a hobby in and of itself. The hobby in this case is not playing games, it is being the best player they can be. The hobby is list building, and playing tournament level games.
Now I play games because I enjoy every aspect of the hobby. I enjoy collecting, I enjoy painting, I enjoy reading new rules, old rules etc. And sometimes I even get a few games in here and there.
It is much like my other hobbies. I enjoy hunting, because I am good at it. I enjoy the thrill of the chase, and I enjoy harvesting animals and plants for dinner. But I also enjoy being in the woods, and communing with God in His creation. One time I was so overwhelmed by His creation, I was forced to get on my knees and cry out to Him, and worship Him right at the base of a tree. I'm not even sure if I got any animals that morning, but I got something way more important. I got a reminder of who I serve.
I don't like fishing. Why? Because I suck at it. I'm a terrible fisherman. I don't have patience. I don't spend the time to learn to be good at it. I haven't explored every aspect of the local lakes to be good at learning where the fish are, what they like, and how to catch them. I don't enjoy the finer aspects of that hobby.
It's not that I don't understand the love of excellence or think it's worthy to pursue. It's that I don't think anyone can be excellent at listbuilding since it is entirely an exercise of spending money based on someone else's decisions. Wargaming presents numerous opportunity for satisfaction at good performance: tactical acumen, the effective employment of limited resources against superior forces, etc... Buying your way to victory, or lucking out based on the results of the latest Codex, is lame.
I was going to say, I think a lot of the meta-chasing mentality comes from the TCG scene.
I'm not old enough to know, but I suspect that attitude was less prevalent in the 70's and 80's wargaming scene.
The fun of GW games has an inverse relationship to the amount of attention they get from corporate.
Blood Bowl was better when it was abandoned and ignored, and Mordheim is probably more popular now than ever.
100%